Minutes of the Tax Credits Consultation Group Meeting

14 November 2007

Attendees

HMRC

Chris Fox (Chair)
Kevin O’Hanlon (Secretary)
Irenka Timlin
Irene O’Brien
Mark Riches
Ann Walker
Keith Golding
Jo Toal
Colin Strudwick
Sarah Dorman
David Skinner
Victoria Hughes
Andrew Burland
Mick Ney
Katie Foreman
Lisa Billard

Representatives

Beth Lakhani - Child Poverty Action Group
Jane Hayball - Local Government Association
Sylvia Gilbert - Local Government Association
Katie Lane - Citizens Advice
Victoria Todd - Low Incomes Tax Reform Group
John Andrews - Low Incomes Tax Reform Group
David Brodie - TaxAid

Apologies

Kate Bell - One Parent Families
Richard Exell - TUC
Peter Gravestock - Association of Tax Technicians
Jane Moore - Institute of Chartered Accountants of England & Wales
Nigel Jordan - HMRC

1. Welcome and introductions

Chris welcomed everyone to the meeting, which she would chair as Nigel Jordan had been called to another meeting – he sent his apologies.

2. Minutes of the meeting held on 26 September 2007 & matters arising

HMRC apologised for the delay in circulating the draft minutes for the meeting held on 26 September 2007 and in replying to queries recently. HMRC said that they:

  • would send these minutes to representatives for their comments by 16 November
  • will issue the action points from this meeting by 23 November
  • aimed to provide answers to outstanding queries and action points as soon as possible.

Representatives said that they were developing a website in partnership with Rightsnet where they intend to post questions they have asked, along with HMRC’s reply, and an issues log. Their aim is to help other intermediaries/advisers with tax credits information.

Representatives queried the post meeting note in the July minutes about suspension of recovery of overpayments and suggested that recovery should be suspended whilst there was ongoing correspondence with the customer or their representative, particularly in the case of genuine complaints and matters progressing to the Adjudicator or the Ombudsman.

3. Disability Equality measures

Representatives wanted to discuss the issue of Disability Equality measures and stressed that support for disabled customers should be embedded in HMRC’s approach based on the consultation which lead up to the introduction of the Disability Equality scheme. They pointed out that DWP provide alternative contact details for the disabled and raised a number of concerns including;

  • text phone numbers should be more widely advertised – none are shown in the BT telephone directories, or in the leaflet 'If you wish to complain', or in some parts of Code of Practice 26 on overpayments
  • information on the website does not meet the best standards required
  • the availability of large print leaflets from the Helpline or the Order Line
  • there are customers who cannot use text phone, or the telephone, who need face to face contact at an Enquiry Centre
  • overpayments recovered when the disability element is involved are disproportionately high compared to a customer who does not have the disability element

HMRC explained that there were a number of initiatives underway including;

  • joint research with DWP about what support customers need at particular life events
  • research to identify how disabled customers interact with HMRC, and the issues they face around accessibility
  • workshops throughout the country with frontline staff from HMRC and VCS organisations to discuss issues around particular customer groups. The first will be held in November with others over the following three months
  • setting up the Disabled Customers Consultation group comprising members of the VCS, disabled customers and HMRC to provide a forum to discuss guidance and processes in place and future developments
  • consultation with the Disability and Carers Agency about sharing customer knowledge and looking at ways in which to work together for mutual customers and look at best practice, particularly relating to their communications and guidance.

The information gathered will be used to develop a set of standards across HMRC on accessibility for disabled customers. HMRC said that they will also consider the specific points raised by the representatives today.

Representatives pointed out that HMRC had consulted for a year with disability organisations in 2006 before publishing its Disability Equality Scheme and were keen to see action putting the information into effect.

Representatives asked whether HMRC are still able to provide leaflets in large print format. HMRC explained that the WTC 1, 2, 5 and 6 have been updated online but that it takes longer for printed versions to be made available - in the meantime customers can contact the Helpline who will help with their query. HMRC said that they would check when the ordinary printed versions will be ready and that large print forms and leaflets are available.

4. Operational positions

Representatives had a number of points about the renewals process they;

  • Queried the procedure where only one person in a couple signs the renewal form. HMRC said that they had started to look into this query when they received it recently and hoped to reply shortly
  • Would like some feedback on the outbound calls exercise carried out in August to help customers who had not renewed by the deadline of 31 July
  • Thought some customers may have been incorrectly advised to reclaim tax credits when they tried to renew after the 31 July deadline. HMRC confirmed that was not what the guidance for Helpline advisers says
  • Wondered whether there were any problems with restoring claims. HMRC said that they were not aware of any problems and asked representatives to provide them with specific examples for them to look into if necessary
  • Suggested that HMRC need to further encourage customers who might not fully appreciate the need to provide the information asked for in their renewals pack. In particular HMRC should make it clear that, where the annual declaration related to an award for a previous relationship which had since broken down, customers did not fully appreciate that that old claim needed to be finalised - even though it would not be renewed.

On other operational aspects representatives asked for/about;

  • How long it takes for claims to be put into payment where they have been selected for Compliance checks - delays can create particular difficulties for customers who have childcare costs. HMRC said that they would need to check the present position and would send a written reply
  • Delays in replies to complaints correspondence. HMRC confirmed that work on some complaints had been delayed by the administrative issue that the FST had announced in the summer but they were being dealt with. All complaints should be acknowledged when they are received, with a timescale given for when HMRC expected to reply, and a contact number for the customer to get in touch if they need to.
  • An update on complaints issues and suggested that the Complaints and Redress working group should meet again.
  • An update on the possible merger of the disputed overpayments, and complaints, teams. HMRC said that joint working arrangements were still being tested but they hoped to provide further information shortly.
  • Contact details to enable them to speak direct to members of the Disputed Overpayments team when they wanted to discuss a particular case. HMRC said that arrangements are in place now for someone from the Disputed Overpayments team to return a call.
  • An update on the time it was taking TCO to deal with appeals and disputed overpayments. HMRC said that there are no delays with appeals and that they are dealing with new disputes in date order. Representatives were concerned that, in their experience, there were considerable delays with some cases. HMRC said that they would investigate this.
  • Feedback on fast-tracked cases. They had heard that DWP had sent a memo to JC+ staff in July and asked if they could see a copy - HMRC said that they would check with DWP colleagues. Representatives suggested that that HMRC should also consider fast tracking other types of claim – for example, those involving childcare costs.

HMRC said that the position in the Contact Centre had settled down following the very busy time before and after the renewals deadline. Helpline advisers are now handling initial calls about Debt Management.

A meeting with representatives to discuss issues relating to debt will be held on 9 January 2008.

5. Citizens Advice Report

HMRC said that they are considering the recent report. CA explained some of the background to the report and gave a high level outline of some of the findings

  • the survey was not targeted – CA clients had been invited to complete a questionnaire about tax credits on the CA homepage
  • customers understand what changes in their circumstances they need to report but confidence in the system is affected when an overpayment arises
  • customers who had been overpaid did not always understand why

6. Working Group updates

Representatives asked if they could receive minutes from all of the Working Groups. HMRC said that minutes are not kept for Working Group meetings.

Website

HMRC described the plans and work underway to improve the tax credits material on the website during 2008 and shared with representatives the outline plans for the content – to be built based on customer needs.

Representatives:

  • asked whether the new website would be tested with real people. HMRC confirmed this would happen when the content had been written and said the outline structure had already been tested successfully
  • suggested that the messages about which changes customers must report should be made very clear.

In the meantime, HMRC continued to make minor changes to the navigation on the existing site, and improvements to the content.

CoP26

The next meeting is planned for December. In the meantime work would be done on redrafting the COP26 to reflect the recent discussions about the Reasonable Belief test.

DLA

It was agreed the last meeting had been very constructive with improvements identified for dealing with stop/start notices. HMRC were now looking at the question of protective claims, which will then be discussed in more detail at the next meeting in January.

Representatives asked about the potential implications of the Employment Support Allowance. HMRC said that they were liaising closely with DWP and proposed to discuss this further with representatives at a future meeting.

Passported Benefits

The last meeting was on 14 September and the next is scheduled for 14 December. The issues discussed included

  • Improved signposting
  • Sure start maternity grant
  • Healthy Start
  • The updated WTC6 leaflet
  • Joint working pilots with DWP
  • New system of court fees.

A number of action points were being taken forward as a result.

Childcare

The last meeting was in April. Since then HMRC have been working with Treasury colleagues, and others in HMRC, on the policy issues raised by representatives. These include their suggestion that the childcare element should be available for couples where one partner is either a fulltime carer or is incapable of work but without meeting the existing definition of ‘incapacitated’. HMRC had asked representatives to provide as many examples as possible to support these suggestions. Only one had been received, and HMRC would still find it helpful to have more.

The chair of this working group will be writing to representatives to update them on progress made on the issues raised at the last meeting.

Migrants and immigration

This group has now met for the second time. HMRC has;

  • Shared with representatives a draft leaflet for people arriving in, and leaving, the UK. They will send an amended draft to representatives before the next meeting of the group, in March 2008.
  • Agreed to share the answers to questions raised within the working group, with the wider consultation group representatives.

Representatives asked whether information about nationality obtained for Child Benefit purposes could be used for tax credits purposes. HMRC said they would confirm the position.

Debt

A meeting will take place on 9 January.

7. Tax credits marketing campaign

HMRC delivered a presentation on the 2007 tax credits marketing campaign and agreed to send representatives a copy. The activity covered;

  • Renewals.
  • Changes of circumstances.
  • Ethnic minorities - Representatives asked why HMRC had concentrated information on the Pakistani and Bangladeshi communities. HMRC said that their research showed that take up of tax credits could be higher from these communities so that was used as a starting point but they may focus on other groups/communities in the future.
  • The promotion of Working Tax Credit – this involved a 'door drop' and radio advertising in 35 key areas to encourage take up of Working Tax Credit. HMRC agreed to provide representatives with details of the 35 areas.

Representatives:

  • asked what disability equality assessment had been done for the campaign to ensure the materials/approach include people who are deaf or have other disabilities; they felt that the campaign material generally discriminated against those with hearing impairments. HMRC said that they were working on how best to reach different groups, with the use of different approaches, media and whatever channels were available
  • would like to be involved at an early stage in the development of HMRC’s marketing campaign. HMRC said that they will aim to let representatives see material as it is developed
  • suggested that HMRC should provide information and materials to Registrars’ offices. HMRC said that they are working with mothers to establish where best to place literature
  • objected to the campaign material for WTC as, being targeted at those aged 25 and over, it clearly excluded those with disabilities as a group - who were entitled from age 16. Post meeting note: this particular WTC campaign had already finished but appropriate information to address this point will be included in future WTC marketing materials.

8. Departmental strategic objectives

HMRC referred to discussions at earlier meetings where they had explained that, as part of the Spending Review 2007, they were developing Departmental Strategic Objectives (DSOs) from April 2008 and had invited Representatives’ input. HMRC outlined what had been drawn up and said they would send out details to the representatives.

9. Any other business

Childcare indicator - Representatives said that this still showing incorrect answers. HMRC said that they will pass this on to the appropriate person.

TC941 - Representatives had seen a few examples of this letter from clients and queried why there was no indication of the year and the amount of the overpayment involved. HMRC outlined the circumstances for which these letters had been developed and explained that receipt of the letter should have coincided with receipt of an award notice showing the year and details of the award. HMRC was aware they had a letter from one of the representatives asking for more information about these letters and hope to reply to that shortly

Posting of manual payments to customer’s record – some Representatives had seen examples of cases where, as a result of manual payments being posted to the wrong year on the customer’s record, an overpayment was created in error. They asked for confirmation that the guidance for the Disputed Overpayments team covered the point that they should check that manual payments had been posted to the correct year when considering disputes.

Fostering, adoption and residence payments - Representatives asked for a one off meeting to discuss issues arising on these aspects, where they would like to involve some specialist welfare rights advisers. HMRC said that they will look into this.

The next meeting will be on Tuesday 15 January 2008 at 100 Parliament Street