Minutes of the Tax Credits Consultation Group Meeting 7 March 2007

Attendees

HMRC

Nigel Jordan (Chairman)
Kevin O’Hanlon (Secretary)
Irenka Timlin
Andrew Burland
Chris Fox
David Skinner
Helen Cook
Annette Matton
Jo Toal
Simon Williams
Les Searle
Annie Bush

HMT

Nick Burkitt

DWP

Roger Pugh

Representatives

John Andrews – Low Incomes Tax Reform Group
Angela Gillon – Gingerbread
Kevin Higgins – Advice NI
Joycelen Humphrey - TaxAid
Pauline Hunter – Disability Alliance
Katie Lane – Citizens Advice
Fran Robinson – Local Government Association
Victoria Todd – Low Incomes Tax Reform Group
Beth Lakhani – Child Poverty Action Group

Apologies

Abigail Bremner – Citizens Advice (Scotland)
Jane Hayball – Local Government Association
Jane Moore – Institute of Chartered Accountants of England & Wales

1. Welcome and introductions

Nigel welcomed everyone to the meeting.

2. Minutes of meeting of 17th January 2007

HMRC said that the minutes of the last meeting were not yet finalised but everyone has had an opportunity to see the minutes. HMRC asked for any comments to be sent to the secretary by Friday 9 March. They said that they would issue the minutes by Friday 16 March.

Representatives raised the following points

  • further clarification on the subject of telephone calls which had been diverted during 2003/04 following HMRC’s written response to all representatives of 6th March. Concerns were raised about what was happening in cases where there was no evidence (from either side) of a phone call which a claimant alleges took place, and which is crucial to their argument for disputing their overpayment. HMRC agreed that, in such cases, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, claimants should be given the benefit of the doubt and that guidance would reflect this.
  • answer which had been circulated on sickness guidance. HMRC explained that they had only issued excerpts from the existing guidance. They said that the guidance is to be amended and they will circulate the amended guidance when it is available.
  • contact details for someone in DWP who deals with the Child Benefit extension period. HMRC said they would liaise with Roger Pugh to take this forward.
  • an update on the proposed claim form meeting. HMRC said the meeting had not yet happened but they would share information as soon as they are able.
  • a list of issues arising from meetings, showing what action points HMRC are addressing. HMRC agreed to circulate a list of action points to representatives as soon as possible after each meeting (as the minutes were taking longer to finalise than previously hoped).
  • it was agreed that it might be necessary to identify items which are for the issues log. John Andrews said that he would take responsibility for this from the representatives’ side of things.

3. Operational position

Tax Credit Office

TCO reported that the work state remains in a healthy position.

TCO said that they are in the process of planning for the 4 months renewal window. They confirmed that there will be advertising making it clear that customers now have until 31st July to renew their claim. Targeted reminder letters make the deadline date clear too.

Representatives asked

  • how HMRC plan to deal with good cause for those who fail to reply in time. HMRC explained the earlier renewal date made no difference to the process followed in previous years.
  • what happens if customers do not have all the information available when they come to renew as they had seen some examples of customers not being told they can estimate their income when they contact the Helpline. HMRC pointed out that customers are told in the renewal pack they can estimate their income and said they will look at what was in the guidance for advisers when they handle renewals over the phone.

Contact Centres

HMRC said that accessibility remains very good.

Representatives said their advisers sometimes receive incorrect information from the Helpline, particularly in relation to

  • the disability element
  • what would happen when a change was reported which reduced their entitlement, particularly where the manual restriction was being applied. Representatives asked how many award notices claimants should expect to receive when this happens and how long there is between each. HMRC said that claimants will receive 2 award notices (1st with the change of circumstances reported, the 2nd with the manual restriction applied around a week later).

HMRC said they carried out regular quality checks on the guidance given to callers and aimed for accuracy and consistency. They asked representatives to provide specific examples so they can check that the guidance is right and whether particular advisers are not following it. In the meantime, they would review the information in the disability scripts.

Debt Management and Banking (DMB)

HMRC provided an update on the recovery work undertaken by DMB.

Representatives made the following points

  • arrangements for debt recovery where couples have separated. HMRC said they had sent a written reply on this subject on 6th March to representatives.
  • some customers don’t understand what is owed and why, and might not know which part of HMRC they had been in touch with. HMRC assured representatives that DMB should check customer records for details of any contact with TCO before proceeding.
  • whether HMRC staff have access to the correct guidance when considering recovery. HMRC assured representatives that staff do have access to the correct guidance. A new DMB manual has replaced the earlier recovery manual and work is currently ongoing to incorporate business notices and Frequently Asked Questions to further improve the guidance.
  • they were not clear about payment arrangements, or the DMB processes. HMRC said details were in the manual but they would send representatives a summary.

4. DWP update

DWP said that the draft report on fast track claims should be finalised soon. Any issues will be considered after the report has been finalised. HMRC confirmed that cases which come through the eportal can be readily identified and fast-tracked into payment. Representatives asked whether the report covered Northern Ireland. HMRC said that they will need to confirm this. Representatives queried whether fast track cases that were not sent through the e-portal were recognised as such. HMRC said that this was unlikely as there is no way to distinguish them from ordinary claims received.

There had been further discussions about co-ordination between HMRC and DWP and there would be further work to ensure that issues are discussed in the most relevant forum to help identify practical improvements.

5. Update on legislative changes

HMRC outlined a number of changes being made to the legislation and invited representatives’ comments.

6. HMRC Consultation Framework

HMRC said that the Departmental approach was that there should be a single consultation framework for all of HMRC and commitment to look at the membership of consultation groups on a regular basis. As the terms of reference for the Tax Credit Consultation Group were last visited a year ago they did not anticipate looking at them again for another 12 months.

7. Healthy Start Vouchers

HMRC explained they had been in touch with the Department of Health to explore options available for improving the process from the current 4-weekly provision of information. Representatives were keen that the arrangements fully supported claimants and worked well, especially for the small number of claimants receiving manual payments.

8. International working group

HMRC said that an invitation had been issued to representatives to attend a presentation on 26 April 2007 to hear about the work they had done around migrant workers. HMRC said that two pieces of research had been done.

  • migrants who have been here for 5 years - to establish what had worked well and what could have been done better
  • migrants who may be considering coming to the UK.

Representatives said that they welcomed the research particularly if it leads to improvements in HMRC fully meeting the needs of migrants. They suggested that there be a group specifically dealing with tax credit issues for migrants. HMRC confirmed the Department’s commitment to supporting migrants and suggested the tax credits issues be addressed within the Departmental framework. Representatives felt the tax credits aspects should be addressed first and offered to draw up a list of tax credits specific aspects before the April presentation.

9. Obtaining claim packs

HMRC said they were considering introducing a registration process for intermediary groups who require multiple claim packs from the St Austell order line. This is to ensure that boxes of claim packs go to trusted organisations. HMRC asked representatives for their assistance in drawing up a list of trusted intermediaries. Representatives provided ideas as to who should be included on the list.

10. High level technical workshops

HMRC said they had issued an invitation for representatives to attend a workshop on 23 March. They wanted to focus on issues suggested by representatives so that the workshop (and its outcomes) would be beneficial for representatives and for the customers they represent.

HMRC asked representatives to provide examples of case studies to inform the workshop by Friday 9 March.

11. Ready Reckoner

HMRC asked the group for any feedback on the Ready Reckoner which had been sent out with some award notices in January and March. None of the representatives had seen any issues arising from the Ready Reckoner or had any queries about it. Representatives were invited to send further comments about the calculator, and HMRC said they were considering the future of the ready reckoner in light of customer feedback and earlier comments from representatives.

12. Working Groups update

HMRC provided the following updates

  • Passporting: this group will meet on 28th March
  • Childcare: this group will meet in April
  • DLA: there had been a meeting on 1 February and the next one would be in June
  • Website: work continues to improve the website information
  • CoP26: a new version should be issued in April
  • Complaints Working Group: Representatives asked HMRC for an updated note about the complaints reorganisation and handling.

13. Front-line advisers’ workshop

HMRC provided a summary of a workshop between VCS and HMRC front-line staff held in February. The main objective of the workshop had been to raise awareness amongst VCS and HMRC staff of what each other does as that mutual understanding could help delivery. It was agreed that attendees had gained a great deal from the event and identified a number of areas of improvement.

  • IT System upgrade: HMRC advised there will be a routine system upgrade over the Easter weekend and therefore no tax credits service from 6 – 9 April.
  • Statistics: HMRC said they had published further statistics about tax credits. The secretary will send the internet links for these statistics to representatives.
  • Duty to Promote Disability Equality: Representatives asked HMRC to confirm that changes were being made to forms, guidance etc.
  • Ongoing entitlement to tax credits disability elements: A representative said she had seen some issues arising in connection with some old DPTC claims. HMRC asked the representative to provide specific details and they will investigate.
  • New arrangements for handling third tier complaints: Representatives queried whether there was any further information available about the revised arrangements for working with the Adjudicator’s Office. They were under the impression after speaking to the Adjudicator’s Office that the process would not begin until they had seen the guidance. HMRC said they would report back as soon as possible. Post meeting note: the head of the Adjudicator’s Office will attend the May meeting.
  • Childcare calculator: HMRC said they would report back about this.
  • TC846: Representatives asked whether disputes against overpayments must be made on form TC846. HMRC confirmed a dispute can be made in a letter but it assists the TCO postroom staff getting the post quickly to the correct team if a dispute is made on the readily recognisable form TC846.
  • WTC & Welfare Reform Act: HMRC said they are looking at this and will be working closely with DWP.
  • Reasonableness test: Representatives felt that, if many complaints to the Adjudicator’s Office were about the recovery of overpayments, there should be a review of the application of the reasonableness test and whether a customer could reasonably believe they have been overpaid when HMRC makes a mistake. HMRC said it was clearly set out in CoP26 that we expect claimants to check the personal information on their award notice and there were no plans to change the principles.
  • Working hours: HMRC advised that they would respond to the FAQs analysis which had been submitted by LITRG as soon as possible.
  • Migrants Income – John Andrews had sent questions to HMRC about the law relating to migrants coming to the UK and what income they should use on the form, following examples of some helpline advisers telling migrants to use a nil income on some occasions and on others telling them to use previous year income. HMRC promised to follow this up and provide a written response.

HMRC said the next meeting will be on 16 May at 100 Parliament Street London.