Pensions industry Working Group (PIWG) Meeting Notes

21 September 2005 100 Parliament Street

HMRC Attendees

Jayne Banner (JB) (Chair)
Jo Begg-McBrearty (JBM)
Catherine Hunter (CH)
Graeme Morgan (GM)
Martin Haigh (MH)
Angela Cole (AC)
Charles McNicol (CN)
John Marchant (JM)
Alexandra Stevens (AS) – Minutes

Pension Industry Attendees

Barry Bolland (BB) – representing the Assoc. of Member Directed Pension Schemes
Teresa Turner (TT) –representing the National Association of Pension Funds (NAPF)
Rachel Low (RL) – representing the Society of Pension Consultants (SPC)
John Gleadall (JG) – representing the Association of British Insurers
Ian Young (IY) – representing the Institute Chartered Accountants England & Wales (ICAEW)
Stephen Ward (SW) – representing the Chartered Institute of Taxation (CIOT)
Brian Wilson (BW) – representing the Association of Consulting Actuaries

Apologies were received from, , Penny Green, Quillan Mackay, Sean O’Hara, Kenneth Dierden, Francois Duranton, Richard Hardy, Sam Mann, Keith Matthews, Helen McCarthy, David Phillips, Kate Upcraft

Action Points

AP068 – SD to send email invite to all PIWG members to discussP60 substitute.

AP069 – JG to send us email outlining the problems with the P60 substitute as he sees them.

AP070 – GM to send list to PIWG of who contacted and who spoken to at each company.

AP071 – MH to contact PIWG members about IHT in October.

AP072 – Send RL a copy of latest industry survey.

AP073 – Send PIWG members instructions of how to find creation dates for pages on RPSM.

1. Introduction

JB welcomed everyone to the meeting and asked CH to take people through the action points from last time.

2. Action Points from Last Meeting

CH went through the action points from the last meeting.

AP062 – PIWG members to let PC know by the end of August, for their representative body, their priority order for the April 06 release for items under B & C collectively in Annex A.

AP063 – PIWG members to let PC know by the end of August their views on the following

• What will be the operational impact of having the TPVS release in February?
• Will you be able to use the online Pension Schemes Service instead?
• If not, what alternatives will you adopt?
• Would you like to have a further meeting(s) on this in early September to discuss the full implications?

AP064 – PC to provide feedback to the PIWG from the software meeting of 28th July.

CH said that each of these points would be covered by GM later in the meeting.

AP065 – PIWG members to let SD or PC know if the suggested wording to go on the P60 substitute would have the desired effect, avoiding any confusion and not generating large numbers of unnecessary enquiries to payers or to HMRC
AP066 – PIWG members to let SD or PC know if pension and annuity payers operating PAYE, can build differentiation into their systems so that different versions of the P60 substitute forms are issued to pre and post A-day pensioners and annuitants.

CH Said that JBM will be covering this later in the meeting on behalf of SD.

AP067 – MR to let PIWG know the outcome of consideration of providing a printable version of the guidance for familiarisation with the new regime

CH said that Martyn Rounding would be covering this in the PIWG meeting with HMRC’s policy team on Monday 26th September

JB thanked CH for the APs and explained that Martyn Rounding has left the job of Head of Technical in order to work with the Pensions Policy team. David Richardson is the new head of Technical.

3. E-business update. Feedback from software meetings plus progress on prioritisation

GM gave feedback on the regular meetings with software suppliers. There have been two meetings since the last PIWG – one in Edinburgh and one in London.

Specifically, they have been talking about the testing service for the third party products. Implications around putting back the release date until 8/2 have been discussed and the general view is that the schedule will be tight but is still possible. The key thing is to get a stable set of requirements in a technical pack. This will allow them to do the testing and have products available for April.

The next software meeting will be in October.

4. P60 substitute – progress

In Steve Degnan’s (SD) absence, JBM fed back some comments that had been received from the SPC and the IPPM. On the whole these were not supportive of the approach that had been proposed. As a result the project would follow up the specific points that had been raised and invite the respondents to a one-off meeting. All PIWG members will be cc’d into the invite. It was agreed that it was in everyone’s interest to minimise the confusion that might be experienced from the issue of an annual statement containing details of the percentage of lifetime allowance utilised.
AP068 – SD to send email invite to all PIWG members to discuss P60 substitute.

JG said he felt it was difficult to make decisions in some areas before the regulations were finalised.
AP069 – JG to send us email outlining the problems with the P60 substitute as he sees them.

5. Data cleansing update

GM discussed the ongoing ‘Data Cleanse’ exercise. He said that it would allow people to pre-register their scheme administrators and authorise practitioners for the new regime.

He then went through the online template for the data cleanse. He explained that a typed copy will increase accuracy at both ends. He also said that the timetable for entry into the exercise had been extended until the end of January 06. The form will be going out to people in the next couple of weeks.

BW asked whether, if a practitioner changed their name, we would need one notification, or one for each of the schemes they’re attached to?

GM reassured him that only 1 would be required.

JBM asked why the template asked for telephone numbers.
GM said it was to make business quicker than writing/emailing. Allows for an immediate answer.

RL asked GM whether he could let the PIWG know which companies had been called about the exercise so far and who had been spoken to.

AP070 – GM to send list to PIWG of who contacted and who spoken to at each company.

6. IHT sub-group formation

JB introduced the next topic around IHT and introduced the members of the group that had come to talk.

MH commented that the title of the agenda item was ‘ahead of the game’ as perhaps a sub-group was not necessary. He mentioned the condoc that they had issued at the end of July, which was around IHT consequences post A-Day. He wanted to know whether the outcomes of this document could be settled quickly at that time, or whether it would be necessary to get together in the future.

There was some discussion over the potential change in primary legislation. This would have to go up to the paymaster to change if people thought that they could not live with the legislation as it stands.

The point was raised that, as it stands, it is rather difficult for people to plan.

MH asked what kind of forum people felt was required, and how should they carry things forward.

JB commented that a range of responses had been voiced, and some sort of sub-group would be required to discuss further.

MH said that he would be in touch with PIWG members sometime in October to discuss more.

AP071 – MH to contact PIWG members about IHT in October.

7. Industry Survey

JBM said that the second industry survey had been sent out on 2/9. The closing date for responses was the 23rd September. She encouraged people to reply especially with the start of the industry workshops, as any strong messages received could be fed into the workshop material.

RL asked for clarification on the survey and who it was sent to.
JBM said that it had been sent to those that had answered it previously. It’s purpose is to establish the industry’s operational readiness for the new regime and is around 10 questions long.

AP072 – CH to send RL a copy of latest industry survey.

BB asked what would happen if lots of people responded that they were nowhere near ready?

JBM said that she would consider the responses carefully and then find ways of supporting the industry to attain readiness.

BB said that they were still waiting for further information which meant there was continuing uncertainty. This was made more difficult given that the FSA may possibly regulate SIPPs.

JB stated that there was almost no likelihood of delaying A-Day again, and that this would be a ministerial decision.

RL said that the new information posted on the manual and our website could be a lot clearer than it is. JG asked if we could date pages of guidance

CH explained that we are aware that there are problems in finding items on our website and are looking at ways to improve the signposting and navigation to in order to remedy the situation. We will endeavour in the future to put things onto the ‘What’s New’ section of the site.

AP073 – Send PIWG members instructions of how to find the dates on which pages had been created on the Registered Pension Scheme Manual.

JB said that she hoped some of the information released in FA06 will lead to further clarification for the industry, so they could feel more prepared.

8. AOB

JG asked if the Regulations were going to be covered, JB said that these were a topic for the policy meeting on 26th September.

JB stated that the industry workshops, led by CH were starting soon and, that if there are any issues around industry state of readiness, they are to let her know.

JB thanked everyone for attending today.

The next meeting of the PIWG will be at 2-4pm on 22nd November in 100 Parliament Street.