BP
Adam Little (Co-Chair)
British Retail Consortium
Raina Miles UBS Peter McFie
Woolworths
Timothy Lloyd RBS Graham Halstead
ConocoPhillips (UK)
Ltd Chris Gautrey Tesco Tim Voak
Rolls Royce
Mike Sufrin Schroders Susan Cooper
Friends Provident
Mike Chadwick Vodafone Joel Walters
XL Group of Companies
Mervyn Skeet Capita Sharon Bowen
Ellen Springall - Knowledge, Analysis & Intelligence (KAI), HMRC
Brian McLean - Large Business Service (LBS)
Richard Bright - Local Compliance, HMRC
John Connors - Large Business & Employers Customer Unit (LBECU)
David Garlick, Director Large Business Service(Co-chair)
Andrea Hargreaves, LBS (Secretariat)
Ian Stewart, LBS
John Johnston, LBS
Iain Macniven, LBECU
The minutes of the last meeting were agreed and there were no matters arising.
Action Point 2/May - Although no further questionnaires on
the Review of the LCF have been forthcoming, a report is being drafted from
the responses received - Taken Forward.
Action Point 3/May - Members who volunteered are now part
of either the Risk Working Group or the Shared Workspace Working Group. Both
Groups have held at least one meeting - Completed
Action Point 4/May - There were no volunteers to become part
of a ‘Week in Business’ Working Group, however flyers have been
issued to all Client Relationship Managers (CRMs) and these will be given
to customers and discussed over the coming months - Completed
David provided an update on several areas.
Changes at Board and Senior Level within HMRC - There had been a number of changes over recent months
The Five Year Plan proposes extending the Operating Model concept to other large businesses; this will provide HMRC with a single approach to the large business population. Answering a question from a member, David explained that there was currently nothing similar to the Operating Model in the small/medium business area and that this was unlikely in the foreseeable future. There are vast differences between segments.
Review of Links - There have been two meetings of the Consultative Committee: a report is being prepared in preparation for the Pre Budget Report (PBR) (date yet to be confirmed).
CRMs have completed nearly all of their first meetings
with business and these have generally been positively received although there
are mixed views on the approach taken by some. LBS were starting to review
this both with customers and with CRMs to learn from experiences to date and
to share best practice.
Sharing the LBS perception of risk with business is seen
as helpful. Getting an understanding of the overall picture of risk is an
evolutionary path that needs to be travelled with business. Businesses should
now be starting to get some information from CRMs. As the picture develops,
it is expected that there may be some smaller issues that will be closed down
or dealt with quickly to ensure that resources are effectively focussed. Members
of the Forum pointed out at this point that different regime risks are dealt
with in different ways in business and this needs to be taken into account
if CRMs are going to present a picture of risk that covers all taxes. David
explained that the Business Risk Score was done on a regime basis and was
primarily an indication of the resource need. Individual risks within each
regime were scored (Priority Risk Score) and provided a running account of
risks as they emerged and would be shared with business. The Risk Review is
the starting point for discussions with business; there was still a long way
to go. Scale and complexity may not mean additional resources if CRMs can
see that businesses have effective risk management systems in place, similarly
those businesses that were thought to be low risk would still need a level
of resource to provide effective customer service.
Adam expressed some concern about the vacancy at Chairman level, particularly in these times of change; he hoped that this position would be filled quickly. There was currently a great deal of consultation with business and he hoped, as a result, that the update of the Review of Links talked along the same lines as in the previous LCF. In terms of Consultative Forums, his view was that LCF was one of the more active groups that he felt businesses needed to use or risk losing.
Ellen Springall, Knowledge, Analysis and Intelligence (KAI)
Ellen provided some background to the area of HMRC in which she worked. As part of Knowledge Analysis and Intelligence, her team’s role was to provide customers, including HMRC and HM Treasury, with information on large business and international aspects. The team commissions’ external research, which in itself is quite new to HMRC, to fill in gaps in information and to get evidence to support decisions. Examples of the types of information HMRC are looking for are, understanding customer behaviours – some members believed that the CRM should be asked why their business acts the way it does, how large businesses are structured and why business responds to policy in the way that it does. Some information can be taken from the returns but this does not include reactions to policies. Much of this activity has been carried out on an ad-hoc basis with external customers, HMRC are now looking to develop a Strategy, which will provide a framework for how this will be done in the future. There was a need to maximise information while minimising the burden on business, large business particularly was heavily targeted; there are over 80 Government-wide surveys that large business are obliged to complete. Areas covered during the presentation and discussions were:
Six months had passed since the introduction of the Operating Model, ‘Working with Large Business’, and the CRM role. LBS wanted to take stock, see how things were working in practice and learn from the experiences of customers and the CRMs. At the May meeting of the LCF, the use of telephone surveys with businesses involved in the CRM pilot was mentioned as a good way to get feedback. It was mentioned at the time that it was the intention for Sector Leaders to carry out a rolling programme of telephone surveys with business – one business per sector per month. This had started in September and answers so far seem to support anecdotal evidence received so far:
Members of the Forum were sent the questionnaire being used by Sector Leaders with the Agenda for the meeting. They were asked to move into syndicates to consider if there were other areas that needed to be included on the survey and, using the questionnaire as a prompt, to consider their experiences to date with regard to the Operating Model and feed back issues, good practice seen and ideas for improvement.
Overall, both syndicates believed the questionnaire covered the most relevant areas. Specific points raised were:
Both syndicates believed that it was still early days; 12 – 18 months after implementation may provide more detailed feedback. This was accepted by LBS but there was a need to ensure that there were no significant problems coming to light at this early stage so that remedial/mitigating action could be taken and it also provided an opportunity to benchmark levels of service so that improvements could be measured. The main discussion points within the syndicates were:
Members were thanked by Brian for their openness. Some of the issues mentioned such as the differing approaches of CRMs and the accountability of CRMs had reached senior management anecdotally. It was clear that LBS senior management needed to ensure that CRMs fully understood what was expected. In relation to the authority of the CRM, there was still the need for further dialogue with the rest of HMRC to ensure a good level of understanding. On being asked if members would like to know more about the structure of LBS, beyond the CRMs and Sector Leaders to improve their understanding, members agreed that this would be useful.
Action Point 1/September – Presentation of the overall structure of LBS to be brought to a future meeting.
Richard is one of 14 individuals who form the International Trade Development Liaison Team and their role is to promote Developments and Trade Facilitative Procedures within the International Trade Business area to the trade, external organisations and HMRC staff.
Richard explained that the current international trade legislation is contained in the Community Customs Code and Implementing Provisions. This sets out the rules, procedures and other measures in connection with the trade in goods between the Community and third countries. The changes in the way that goods are traded due to globalisation and the increases in volumes, ‘just in time’ deliveries and the sophisticated nature of products, supply chain services and growth of e-commerce have continually thrown down challenges for Customs Authorities. The aim now is to modernise and simplify customs rules and processes to create ‘a simple and paperless environment for Customs and Trade’. Key points of the presentation:
The following points were raised:
Richard explained that information was available on the HMRC Internet site. He also reiterated that the International Trade Development Liaison Team were available to talk to business and that if they were interested, they should talk to their CRM.
The second meeting of the Consultative committee was held on 11 September and the emerging findings, broadly shared with LCF and others, were discussed. In summary, the Committee welcomed the progress made and believed the issues raised have the potential to make a significant difference. Summaries have been given to Ministers where they have been positively received; the Chancellor is keen to have the report before the Pre-Budget Report (PBR).
At the end of this second phase, there are 18-20 areas where further liaison is needed in order to set priorities, understand what can be achieved in the short, medium and longer term and what, if any, quick wins there are that would make a difference. In relation to LBS operations, the areas include:
These are already areas that LBS are looking at.
Further thought was also needed on setting out the accountabilities for delivering the findings of the Review in which business representatives will play a part. Progress will also be reported publicly. Initial thoughts were for involvement of members of the Consultative Committee and representatives from groups such as the 100 Group and CBI. They would help deliver the risk assessment process started in the LBS; provide a steer on emerging issues and future impact. It was envisaged they would report once or twice a year.
There was discussion on whether to include the role of Agents within the scope of the Review. It was decided that, as the Review was ultimately about the relationship between HMRC and business, Agents were outside the scope. However, there have been and will continue to be discussions with them.
The next meeting of the consultative Committee is arranged for 20 October 2006.
These further points were raised during discussion:
The first meeting of the Group had been held, led by Alain Gray, Project manager. The current template for the Business Room was shared with the Group; it appeared fairly logically set out. Further work was needed to ensure that whatever is proposed fits with business systems and does not increase the administrative burden, it does have the potential to synchronise with systems such as Outlook. There is currently an Events Diary where details of events relating to tax can be placed, both internal to the business and those involving HMRC. All members of the Group were now scheduled to see Alain on a one-to-one basis to start to understand customer issues. Members of the Group were positive and quite sold on the idea; now need to see if it works.
Two meetings have been held. The emphasis to date has been about updating business on the developments and thinking to date and explaining the information that is, or will be, available to CRMs. The next step is for the Risk Review to be tested with members of the Group. CRMs will be approached by the LBS Risk & Resource Team to ensure this is done sooner rather than later. An overall definition of risk does not appear to be available; this would be useful.
Action Point 2/September – LBS (Risk & resources Team) to provide LCF members with a definition of risk.
John Connors commented that risk and shared workspace were also topics being discussed by smaller corporates who could see advantages in the approach. It will be interesting to see the outcomes of the Groups.
David thanked members for their level of participation. The next meeting would be his last and Melanie’s first; he looked forward to seeing them there.
7 December 2006
Room 327
22 Kingsway
London
WC2B 6NR
