Statutory Payments Consultation Group

Meeting Thursday 14 May 2009

1.00 pm - 4.00 pm
John Bacon Room, Somerset House, Strand, London

Attendees

Employer Representatives [Reps]

Lynsey Groom (FSB)
Norman Green (BCS)
David Harris (ICAEW)
Marcia Bowen (Payroll Alliance)

Statutory Payments Government Departments [SPGDs]

Kate Wheeler (DWP)]
Ann-Maria Loughman (DWP)
Nicola Dissem (BERR – now BIS)
Karen Haseldine (BERR – now BIS)
Simon Clark (HMRC)
Connie Hera (HMRC)
Des McKnight (HMRC) - Chairman

Apologies

Chris Hind (BCC)
Elaine Gibson (IPP)
Linda Pullan (Payroll Alliance)
Simon Parsons (IREEN)
Dianne Spruit (Private Sector Payroll Group)
Jackie Petherbridge (FSB and Private Sector Payroll Group)
Shelley Fuller (DWP)

1) Introductions

Marcia Bowen was welcomed, in absence of Linda Pullan from Payroll Alliance.

2) Notes of last meeting

These had not yet been prepared due to sickness, but would be copied via email to members of the group soon.

3) Update from DWP

a) Progress on proposed changes to medical certificate [med cert]:

  • Consultation document on the regulations for the new med cert were being finalised (they have since been published, on 28 May; consultation period closes on 19 August).
  • Current forms Med 3 and Med 5 will be blended onto one form. (Med 3 is now issued based on an examination carried out by the doctor either on that day or the day before; Med 5 is issued where evidence of sickness is required for a past period based on a previous examination by the doctor or is issued by the doctor based on a written report by another doctor.)
  • The new medical statement will not only indicate (as now) whether a patient is ’fit’ or ‘not fit for work’ for benefit and sick pay purposes – there will also be an additional new ‘may be fit for work now’ category, enabling doctors to record further information, if appropriate, on whether the patient would benefit from any changes to their work.
  • Practical SSP issue – what are the SSP implications where doctor recommends phased return to work and the employee works part-time before returning to full-time work? This situation is, of course, not new and will be fully covered in later guidance for employers.
  • Computer-generated med cert is under consideration, in place of document hand-written by GPs. There are no plans for electronic transmission to the employer or employee.
  • Proposed timing of implementation – 6 April 2010, subject to approval of Parliament.

b) Draft revised SMP1 had been copied to Reps. These changes were designed to be consistent with the recent SSP1 changes. There is no change in the order of the boxes ('Why I cannot pay you SMP') requiring any action by payroll software developers. Reps’ comments (received before and during the meeting) were duly noted. Employers can find links to the current SMP1 from the Employer CD-ROM and from the HMRC website. No change was planned to these access arrangements for the new version.

c) Flu Pandemic, update & publicity

  • A proposal was being considered that, in the event of a global pandemic being declared by World Health Organisation, the existing 7-day period of self-certification for sickness absence for SSP purposes might be extended, if circumstances in the UK merited it. This was subject to a decision being taken by the Civil Contingencies Committee [CCC]. The purpose would be to reduce the need for pandemic sufferers to visit GPs' surgeries (and risk spreading the virus) in order to get a 'sick note'. In the absence of a decision by CCC the period would remain at 7 days. Any decision to extend beyond 7 days would be temporary - perhaps for 6 months, after which the period would revert to 7 days - and would be well publicised.
  • Form SC2 can be used for self-certification for SSP. (Use of this particular form is not compulsory - employers can use their own version, if preferred.) In the event of the self-certification period being extended this form could continue to be used, with any reference to a 7-day period being altered as required.
  • The Reps supplied some useful input to improve draft guidance for employers in the event of self-certification being extended.

4) Update from BERR (now BIS – Department for Business Innovation and Skills)

a) Current Issues

  • Consultation on European Commission proposals for changes to the Pregnant Workers Directive underway (closing date 22 June).
  • Awaiting House of Lords decision in the Stringer case about annual leave and sick leave.
  • Consultation document (opens new window) on the implementation of the EU Agency Workers Directive had been published on 8 May (closing date for consultation 31 July

b) BIS promised to provide a follow-up with some additional detail in due course to the guidance issued by HMRC in May 2008 on 'Statutory maternity leave – salary sacrifice and non-cash benefits'.

5) Issues from Reps

a) Uprating of Statutory Payments – Reps pointed out there can be difficulties when the pay week spans the date of uprating. Accordingly HMRC will expand the guidance for employers included in Employer Helpbooks for 2010. HMRC will also expand the guidance for its own staff.

b) DWP clarified a detailed question re the commencement of the SMP pay period [MPP] and maternity leave. There was concern about the E15 page 25 entry. DWP confirmed this was correct. The policy intention and the legal advice was that the MPP, in the case of a pregnancy related absence in the 4 weeks prior to the EWC, starts from the day after the first complete day of absence from work for that reason. If a woman has been both at work and then goes home sick for a pregnancy related reason, then that day is not a day of absence from work, it is a day she was in work. Similarly for SSP, if a woman was at work on a day but went home sick, that day would not be a day of incapacity for work.

6) Salary sacrifice and non-cash benefits during Statutory Maternity Leave and Statutory Adoption leave

  • HMRC had issued guidance on the Tax and NICs consequences for non-cash benefits during SML and SAL on 15 April 2009. Feedback would be welcomed at the next meeting of this group.

7) Next meetings:

Thurs 9 July 2009 - 1.00 to 4.00 pm at DWP offices Caxton House, Tothill St.

Thurs 8 October 2009 - 1.00 to 4.00 pm at BERR offices 1 Victoria Street

Thurs 28 January 2010 - 1.00 to 4.00 pm at HMRC offices 100 Parliament St.