Margaret Knights HMRC MPPC Carter (Chair)
Kath Ryan HMRC - MPPC
Andy Longfellow - IMS Web Solutions
Jonathan Le Gat - Accenture
Colin Henzell - HMRC MPPC Business Change
Pam Jones - HMRC Carter IT
Simon Lidster - HMRC MPPC Carter Comms
Sue Manley - HMRC MPPC Carter
Roger Smith - HMRC MPPC Director
Carolyn Parmeter - HMRC Carter Program
Alison Wells - HMRC BCU Customer Team
Alyson Fairbrass - HMRC MPPC Recruitment
John Baxter - HMRC Customer Consultation Online Services
Luca Alessandra - HMRC MPPC Forum Secretary
Chartered Institute of Taxation
British Computer Society
Public Sector Payroll Group
Business Application Software Developers Association
Payroll Alliance
Institute of Payroll Professionals
Institute of Chartered Accountants in England & Wales
The Consultative Forum Chair opened the meeting and gave apologies from Maria Hennessey, Chris Hind, Elaine Gibson and Matthew Brown, who were unable to attend.
Previous minutes of 10 July 2007 were agreed by Forum and action points updated; please see latest version at Appendix A.
HM Revenue & Customs (HMRC) presented an updated ToR, needed to reflect Group’s slightly widened role, to make it clearer that this is a sub-group of a wider Employment Consultative Forum and to rationalise current members.
The forum was happy with revised ToR, which has now replaced existing one on HMRC website. The Forum Secretary asked for current contact details, although these will not be published.
HMRC gave some background to the reason for the introduction of DPS in February 2006, the replacement for the Government Gateway Secure Mailbox service for making Tax Codes etc available to employers or their agents over the Internet.
HMRC acknowledged that because of the speed of implementation of DPS, consultation with users had not taken place and many believed that the service was unsatisfactory. HMRC have been working on improvements to DPS and involved user representatives in this process. A payroll representative advised that their final report, based on users who had been canvassed, would be available this week and was generally positive towards the proposal.
The proposal is to provide a free downloadable application that users can install on their PCs which will allow greater functionality than that currently available from HMRC. It will allow users to see if they had ‘opened’ a notification and also have an improved search facility – two shortcomings of the current service.
The requirements of the proposal are currently being fully documented following which ASPIRE will supply a costing for consideration by HMRC.
The aspirational date for delivery of the application is February 2008 but HMRC reported this would be exceptionally tight even if financial approval, development and testing went according to plan.
HMRC reassured Forum, that the delay to the introduction of MPPC Phase 3, which also includes transferring current PAYE taxpayer records from existing platform (COP) to the new PAYE Service on NIRS, would allow for greater system assurance testing. Representatives raised no substantive issues, but sought assurance that deferred posting of taxpayer records and end of year information would not adversely impact on employer End of Year (EoY) penalties. They suggested that HMRC should avoid the EoY period for the migration of data to NIRS and thereby also help to avoid delayed repayments to individuals.
HMRC reassured the Forum that EoY processes will not change and all Head of Duty systems (PAYE, NI, Student Loans) would continue to receive their relevant 2007-08 information during the migratory period. HMRC reported that any adverse impact of delayed taxpayer repayments is diminished by moving records from COP to NIRS early in the financial year.
Representatives also stressed the importance of timely HMRC communication to go out to employers and agents advising/reminding them well in advance of deadlines and of systems updates.
HMRC listed the numerous tests carried out ahead of the PAYE Service introduction.
HMRC is also undertaking business confidence assurance tests, for example checking that test data is representative of typical cases found in day-to-day business, checks that test events follow a typical live case life cycle and checking data flows from system to system - end to end, ahead of the cutover and Controlled Go Live activities, planned for next April.
Realistic data will be used to test the new Service, which will cover a wide range of customer circumstances.
HMRC reassured Forum that real taxpayer data used to test system will be treated with same level of confidentiality as happens during normal business. Live testing will only be available for a limited period in April.
Answering concerns from Representatives, HMRC stated that in the unlikely event of system malfunction on go-live date, the service will be unavailable for in-year online submissions whilst repairs are carried out. However due to the extensive system testing taking place between now and go-live day, any repairs needed are unlikely to last more than a few hours.
Representatives asked to see prompt messages posted, advising employers/agents of system availability.
Aspire provided a demonstration of HMRC’s new PAYE Service and Work Management layers in order to highlight the advantages to HMRC and customers of having a single PAYE record.
Representatives complimented the high level data management screens and the usability of the system. They agreed the demonstration highlighted the improved service Contact Centres will be able to provide.
Representatives would like to see full integration of PAYE, Student Loans and Tax Credits systems in the future due to concerns that the three systems might not complement each other, as this could affect the ability of Contact Centres to join up same-customer queries. However they acknowledged that PAYE service will be a vast improvement over the current system.
HMRC answered that Contact Centres would have access to all relevant services – PAYE, Tax Credits, Student Loans – so will be able to establish whether there are any outstanding work items and fully respond to queries.
To further reassure Forum HMRC confirmed that all PAYE staff not just Contact Centres will be able to access new system.
HMRC confirmed that compulsory DOB entry and centralised PAYE data will ensure more accurate and speedier processing on their part, even when no NINO has been provided.
Representatives also raised concerns over ‘in year’ data gaps, especially where employee have several jobs changes in one year, but were assured that these would be reviewed at the year end and that the routine issue of P43/ P44s to employers would cease.
Representatives, again, asked for any limitations to be promptly communicated to meet customer expectations.
The presentation illustrated what steps HMRC is taking to ensure readiness of IT, business processes and staff to ensure a smooth switch from the existing COP system to the PAYE Service, a move involving almost 40 million taxpayer records. This will include around 24,000 staff being trained to operate the new PAYE Service. Linked to the PAYE Service is a PAYE work management system which will automatically allocate work items to individuals with the appropriate skills to undertake that work.
Some staff within offices in Sunderland and Portsmouth will test some of the new elements of the PAYE Service early next year. Following a successful pilot, the new PAYE Service browser will be rolled out to staff that will require access to the PAYE Service to undertake their work.
The following new online test services will be available in October 2007:
2008/2009 End of Year – P14, P35 P38A, 2007/08 Expenses and Benefits
– P11D, P11D(b), P46(Car), P9D, In year movements – P46, P45(1),
P45(3), PENNOT , 2007/08 Employer Share Scheme – forms 34, 35, 39, 42
Quality Standard documents for the P14, P35 and P38A 2008/09 are now available.
Recognition testing: 2007-08 end of year recognition scenarios are available now; 2008-09 end of year scenarios will be available from October 2007; Carter in-year recognition will be available from late October 2007. The scenarios will be included with the end of year pack.
Individual statistics have been sent to all the internet developers; common errors are being analysed at present and a list of most common errors in 2006-07 are shown in the latest Quality Standard document.
The plain paper printing proposal has been approved by HMRC. These stationery changes will coincide with the roll out of the replatformed HMRC service ORF-P in October 2008.
HMRC needs input from Forum Representatives on this and asked them for answers to the four questions at the end of attached document.
As the P45 is a well-used form, the Forum agreed that P45 recipients should recognise form by its name, despite proposed changes.
HMRC thanked representatives for feedback provided on the new stationary. HMRC also presented a chart outlining P45, P46 and P46Pen introduction dates and their impact to employers and asked representatives for comments, possibly by 29 September 2007.
Software developers’ representatives have asked to see forms early as this will help them to design third party software.
Dates and location of 2008 roadshows are now available.
HMRC handed out 2006/07 and 2007/08 comparison graphs for online Returns filed, which clearly shows targets being met this far.
The Chair thanked Forum for comments on draft Note for Payroll Software Developers.
The Forum agreed to hold next meeting around second half of January 2008.
Forum ended at 14.30.
Recurrent - All to forward any questions/topics around the new system for inclusion at future meetings Ongoing - All.
Recurrent - Update external reps details Ongoing - Review conducted 09 October 2007 and January 2008. Next update due first half of January.
2.2 - Representatives are required to provide feedback for the HMRC documents presented on with agenda points 12 & 13. Refer to Secretary message of 19.09.07, please Closed - Feedback received.
