MPPC Employer Consultation Sub-Group meeting - Minutes

7 November 2006

MKn - Margaret Knights (Chair)
RS - Roger Smith (MPPC Director)
MB - Matthew Brown (CIOT)
PC - Penny Carey (ICAEW)
TE - Tim East
CE - Caroline Elvin
AF - Alyson Fairbrass
NG - Norman Green (LogicaCMG, BCS)
MH - Maria Hennesey (IREEN)
CH - Chris Hind (BCC)
VH - Vicki Hosking
PJ - Pam Jones
DK - Dennis Keeling (BASDA)
MKs - Martin Kinsella
TL - Tracey Lockyer (Minutes)
YL - Yvette Lamidey (IPP)
SM - Sue Manley
JP - Jackie Petherbridge (PSPG)
JS - Josie Skipp
RT - Robert Tomlinson
AW - Alison Wells

Previous minutes

The previous minutes were agreed.

Previous Action Points

AP1 - Closed. Internet message will go out this week.
AP2 - MKs is looking at notification of TUPE moves in list format instead of individual P45s. Use of P45s could result in difficulty with redundancy payments - highlighted in meeting with MKn, MKs and Insolvency Practitioners.
AP3 - Closed.
AP4 - DK advised Payroll Standard has problem areas. Payroll Audit information is problem for small and large employers. Meeting with Tony Birch in December to discuss.
AP5 - MKs has meeting on 8 Nov to discuss. YL concerned about HR not getting information early enough for 42-day period.
AP6 - This is now live service so Ian Atkin will pick up when back from holiday.
AP7 - JP will pick up later.
AP8 - DK to provide Simon Lidster with update.

MPPC update

RS provided an update on MPPC.

  • Online filing for End of Year became business as usual on 1 November. MKn advised that move to live service means that Ian Atkin and Bridget McBride have moved on.
  • Some 2004-05 Returns are not yet processed. Asking employers to resubmit due to IT and consolidation problems.
  • 2005-06 Returns - 87% data processed to NIRS.
  • MPPC 2 - quick fixes for April 2007. Taxes staff now have NIRS access - this will reduce open cases and queries to customers.
  • MPPC 3 - complete move to NIRS will be done in three stages: October 2007 - internal IT; April 2008 - NIRS for PAYE; October 2008 - make improvements to customer service.

Debt Management and Banking (DMB)

CE advised that HMRC received 1.623m (85%) 2005-06 Returns (P35s) on time, compared to 1.232m (74%) in 2003-04 (before mandation and incentives introduced), but still 227k outstanding.

157k incentive repayments received and dealt with within 21 days. All notifications have gone out but DMB wonder if small employers perhaps don’t check the notices in their mail box or don’t realise they have one. JP suggested hard copy reminders instead.

AP1 - JS will find out if employers know about and are checking their mail box.

CE gave update on Mandatory Electronic Payment (MEP) and circulated a compliance handout.

  • Compliance is up to 97%.
  • More penalties occur when the 22nd is at the weekend and not paid on the Friday before.
  • 465 employers received a surcharge - average is £21k.
  • Appeals stay at around 65. HMRC has just won its first case at the Commissioners.

DMB is taking steps to help new employers by promoting employer compliance in Nottingham. Also looking at

  • a nil online facility - earliest availability April 2007
  • national direct debit facility - availability April or May 2008.

AP2 - CE to look at whether DMB has been working with employers on direct debit online.

MPPC Phase 2 & 3 - Business Change presentation (emailed 8.11.06)

VH presented an update on Phase 2 & 3 from the Business Change Team. The work focuses on helping people to comply, resolving issues and processing across the department, and looking at communications messages.

During the presentation, several issues were raised.

  • CH asked to limit the number of options and menus on helplines. VH advised that details are not yet known.
  • PC concerned about security if all employee details are on one IT system. RS and TE both advised that security is constantly updated to prevent identity theft etc.
  • CH asked about the communications messages and suggested that online messages do not always work.

AP3 - VH will find out about the use of options and menus on the helpline.

AP4 - TL to get presentation slides from VH and circulate to Sub-Group. Closed.

Employer recruitment

MKn advised that ‘snapshot letters’ go to all employers to advise them whether they are a small, medium or large employer. Medium and large employers will also receive

  • a reminder about in-year filing, and
  • information to help them prepare for April 2008.

Only 22% currently file in-year online - employers say that software is not enabled to do so, and if it is enabled it can’t define between P45s and P46s. Discussion around software development followed.

  • JP suggested HMRC contact IT software suppliers to find out problems, but advised that suppliers will charge employers for updating software during the year.
  • DK advised that HMRC website shows Payroll Standard, but some software suppliers only have EDI. NG asked for information to be added to Recruiters’ script.
  • Suggestion that software developers have a message to state that their software supports in-year filing.

AP5 - MKn to liaise with Payroll Standard Team to find out if software developers should have a message about the product supporting in-year filing.

Recruiters’ script (emailed 8.11.06)

SM presented the current Recruiters’ script and asked the Sub-Group for their input. All agreed to help. SM advised that she needs changes by Friday 17 November.

AP6 - TL to send Recruiters’ script to Sub-Group (with presentation slides). Closed.

MPPC Communications

MKn advised that an internet message will be released this week to include

  • tax-free payment incentives
  • an update on 2004-05 and 2005-06 processing, and
  • final clarification of ‘Nil’ Returns.

The Comms Team is also

  • drafting the Employer Bulletin - final text is required by 15 November
  • thinking about Carter messages - what we need to say, when and in which publications.

Carter 2

MKn and MKs have already met Insolvency Providers and will be meeting Pension groups to discuss Carter 2. They will look at a range of employer problems including not following the right code, and arrangements for pensioners.

MKn advised that we may introduce a P46(Pensioner) - for people who are working and receiving a pension. JP agreed that many people are in that situation now.
A paper on Carter 2 is being prepared and will be available for the Sub-Group before the next meeting.

AOB

DK advised there was a problem with the gateway. It didn’t link to HMRC website. [TE checked the links on the gateway but could find no trace of a problem - 7 Nov.]

AP7 - JS to provide note for minutes. [Due to time constraints JS will now update DK separately.]

CH advised that P35s cannot be amended if the ‘total tax deducted’ was wrong on the original Return, for example, where P45 details incorrectly include tax for a previous employment. CE advised that guidance around amending P35s needs updating.

AP8 - PJ agreed to investigate query about P35 amendments if example is provided to her.

YL asked

  • when biometric testing for in-year filing will happen - TE advised they are looking at timetables
  • if the system will be down - MKn advised problems for filing 2006-07 Returns due to Easter (Maundy Thursday - 5 April, Good Friday - 6 April, Easter Sunday - 8 April, Easter Monday - 9 April)
  • for Carter 2 to be available before April 2008 (suggested Feb 2008) - MKn to investigate further.

TL advised that she will deal with Carter 2 communications. She will revise internet information (and send text to Sub-Group beforehand) and check events plan - to ensure timely releases. TL has contacted Insight and Publicity Teams for research on contacting employers, and will work with them to coordinate information to employers.

RS thanked the Sub-Group for their time and support through difficult times introducing MPPC. MKn agreed and wished to thank

  • Yvette Lamidy for her continued support for IPP
  • Ian Atkin for the huge contribution he made to the team
  • Peter Arrowsmith for his substantial contribution on MPPC.

MKn would like the next meeting to concentrate on two papers - local practices and penalties.

Discussion around the date of the next meeting.

Next meeting: 5 December at 11am