Don Macarthur (DM) - Co-chair Business Customer Unit
Alison Bainbridge (AB) – Business Customer Unit
Sue Hunt – (SH) - PAYE, SA and NICs
Caroline Elvin (CE) – Debt Management and Banking
Stephen Benn– (SB) IMS Software Developers Support Team
Paul Braviner (PB) – Large Business Service
Sue Lely – (SL) Local Compliance
Peter Fellows – (PF) PaceSetter in Compliance
Paul Sower – (PS) PaceSetter in Compliance
Claire McKenzie – (CMc) Customer Contact Online Services
Gary Jones – (GJ) Communications and Marketing
Ann Shevas - (AS) Communications and Marketing
Lynn Carroll – (LC) PAYE, SA and NICs
Kathy Prior – (KP) PAYE, SA and NICs
David Owen – (DO) HMT
Karen Thomson – (KT) Co-Chair - IPP
Ian Whyteside – (IW) AAT
Angela Williams – (AW) ICAEW
Norman Green – (NG) BCS
Matthew Brown – (MB) CIOT
Alex Rowson – (AR) BASDA
Linda Pullan – (LP) Payroll Alliance
Michael Templeman – (MT) IOD
Clive Johnson – (CJ) IAB
Trevor Blackmuir – (TB) ATT
Steve Hughes – (SH) BCC
John Hampton – (JH) CBI
Jackie Petherbridge (JP) FSB
Iain Scott-Shore - CBI
Peter Bickley - ICAEW
Anne Redston - ICAEW
Tim Downes - HMRC
Glenn Collins - ACCA
DM welcomed everyone to the meeting especially those attending for the first time. Minutes from the previous meeting were agreed. Action points were closed and agreed as appropriate.
DM gave a brief update on the EOY filing results for 2008-09. The impression was that everything had gone well and he thanked members of the forum for their input at the weekly telephone conferences. HMRC found these very useful.
There had been no unplanned interruptions to the service and the filing peaks had been broadly in line with forecasts.
Estimates indicate that 98 per cent of P14s and 72 per cent of P35s received have been filed online.
Electronic filing figures:
|
Form |
To 19 May 09 |
To 31 May |
Totals |
P14 |
56,672,346 |
59,059,370 |
P35 |
1,381,221 |
1,408,743 |
|
Internet |
P14 |
27,430,064 |
28,116,864 |
P35 |
1,368,910 |
1,395,918 |
|
EDI |
P14 |
29,242,282 |
30,942,506 |
P35 |
12,311 |
12,825 |
The busiest day for Internet filing was 14 May 2009 with 1.7 million P14s received. For EDI the busiest day was 11 May 2009 again with 1.7 million P14s received. By the end of May 2009 260K paper P35s had been received and 1,046,659 paper P14s.
Failed submission rates were 2.6 per cent using HMRC products and 6.3 per cent using third party software.
By 2 June 2009 over 85 per cent of expected P14s had been processed to back office systems.
JP asked why the failure rate for HMRC products was so high bearing in mind the built in validation?
Action Point: SB to investigate the reasons for high failure rates and report back for forum.
Update: Failure rate for HMRC products is actually 0.8 per cent, the 2.6 per cent quoted earlier included duplicates.
PB gave a brief introduction to the Tax Compliance Risk Management (TCRM) process to raise members’ awareness of its existence. TCRM is guidance on how HMRC will manage risk in large businesses. There will be a different approach for Low Risk and non-Low Risk customers. The aim is to rely upon the customer’s own systems to give us an understanding of how they manage their tax risks, which means our new approach to the review of Governance and Delivery will become fundamental to the Business Risk Review.
The new approach is focused on understanding how our customers’ governance and processes manage tax risk. It is important to emphasise that this represents a shift in approach for HMRC in this area. It is a move away from enquiries which work backwards from disclosures on tax computations, which are time consuming for customers and HMRC, to understanding a customer’s processes and systems for calculating the numbers disclosed in the tax computations or returns.
Further information can be found at TCRM - Tax Compliance Risk Management Process - Main Contents
PS delivered a presentation about the project to re-engineer the main Employer Compliance processes in the SME population.
The main aims of the project are to improve efficiency and reduce the burden on our customers.
The re-engineered process will take account of the new legislation:
The project commenced in November 2008 and in June 2009 process trials started in three separate locations – Exeter, Telford/Wolverhampton and Washington. Following evaluation of these trials it is hoped a ‘New Way of Working’ will be considered for implementation nationally at the end of November 2009.
Following the presentation a number of concerns were expressed surrounding the security of information being given/sought over the telephone and if the employer is to be the first point of contact, who has responsibility for passing on information where employers have agents acting for them.
PS advised that he would take these issues away and they would be considered further a part of the project trials.
A copy of the PowerPoint presentation will be circulated with the minutes.
PowerPoint presentation Employer Compliance Re-engineering (PPT 836K)
CMc gave a demonstration of the PDV. This is a new application that is currently being trialled. It is an alternative to the existing DPS Portal Viewer. The DPS Portal Viewer will remain in place and is not impacted by PDV.
The PDV is a desktop application that customers will download from the HMRC website, install on their PCs/laptops, and use to receive, store and view codes and notices. The PDV allows you to:
PDV is aimed particularly at those who:
The trial is expected to run up to the end of September 2009, with a view to making PDV available to everyone in October 2009.
GJ talked to the group about communication roles in HMRC and outlined some of the things the department was trying to do to improve communications. There are currently about 85,000 people working for HMRC. Communications and Marketing are currently conducting an audit which will identify all communicators and lead to the production of an internal and external communications strategy which will focus on four main priorities;
AS then spoke to the forum about the roles and responsibilities of the Press Office - which is to defend the reputation of HMRC and ensure that consistent messages are given out. The press office provides one central point for all media enquires and it is their job to co-ordinate and plan all external communications. There was then some discussion about HMRC’s perceived reluctance to publish messages when things go wrong. AS explained that this was not the case and that if there was an issue which affected the vast majority of customers then HMRC would go 'public' and the appropriate communications would be issued. However HMRC on the whole prefer to target communications only at customers who are affected by particular issues. This allows HMRC to get messages to the correct audience without raising alarm with those customers who are unaffected.
LC talked to members about student taxation. A formal consultation was carried out in 2008 to explore ways in which PAYE processes for students could be changed to help improve the numbers of students taxed correctly during a tax year, make it administratively easier for employers with students on their workforce and make handling student employees easier and more efficient for both employers and HMRC. This resulted in the Chancellor making an announcement at PBR08 stating the process would be simplified by April 2011. Ministers have directed that the Student Tax Code will provide up front allowances which will ensure that those students earning below the Personal Allowance limit will not pay tax on their earnings. The Student Tax Code will operate against a new set of tax tables which will start to deduct tax once earnings exceed the personal allowances.
LC advised that HMRC is now at the stage where it would like to undertake
external consultation with students and employers, software industry,
and students representatives around how the Student Tax Code will work
and asked if any members of the forum would like to be involved.
Action Point: Anyone interested in taking part in consultation
on student taxation to pass their details to AB.
TB had previously written raising a number of PAYE issues, these are currently been investigated and an update will be given at a later date.
Concern was expressed about the length of the pre-recorded messages on
the payment helplines for Shipley and Cumbernauld.
Action Point: CE to look at the current messages to see if they
could be shortened.
Collecting small debts through the payroll, draft guidance mentioned in our earlier email is now available at Recovery of Debts under PAYE Regulations: Draft Guidance
Proposed dates for 2010 meetings - 18 March 2010, 17 June 2010, 23 September 2010 and 9 December 2010.
Date of next meeting: 24 September 2009.
