Minutes of Agent and Adviser Steering Group

Meeting 28 September 2006

Attendees:

Dave Hartnett - Chair

Representative Bodies:

Derek Allen - ICAS
Chas Roy-Chowdury - ACCA
John Kimmer - ATT
Paul Aplin - ICAEW
Brian Palmer - AAT
Simon Sweetman - FSB

HMRC:

Tony Kelly - Agent & Adviser Unit
Theresa Middleton (Business Customer Unit)
Tamsin Woodeson - Enforcement & Compliance Operations
Mark Young (Tax Agents & Advisers Team)
Suzanne West (Tax Agents & Advisers Team)
Martin Sellar
Roger Halson - Small & Medium Enterprises & Employers
Sally Littlejohns - Large Business Service
Matt Blake (Board’s Advisory Accountant)
Jane Gilchrist (Customer Contact)

Apologies:

Graeme Ross - KPMG
Gary Mackley Smith - FSB
Andrew Hubbard - CIOT

Welcome & introductions

  1. Theresa Middleton welcomed everyone to the meeting.
  2. There was concern at the late circulation of papers for the meeting.

    Action: In future HMRC would undertake to circulate papers 7 days before Steering Group.

Minutes and Action Points from last meeting.

  1. Tony Kelly summarised the action points from the last meeting.
  • Agent & Adviser Unit to explore the idea of a Client Relationship Manager. The team have begun to look at this as part of the overall services provided to agents (Agent Services TAASG 2006/03) and will be in a position to update further at the next meeting.
  • Representative bodies to monitor over, say, a week and report back on the range and volume of issues at the next meeting. Nothing received prior to meeting. This information would be very useful in informing the contact Centre pilot for agents (see below). AP below.
  • Nick Lodge, Director of Customer Contact to attend the next meeting to discuss Contact Centres and service to agents. Nick Lodge unable to attend but Jane Gilchrist is attended outlining proposals for a Contact Centre pilot for agents.
  • The group will give initial consideration to the benefits for agents and clients of agent standards and how this might be developed. To report back at the next meeting. Nothing received prior to meeting. This area will be picked up on the work going outlined in Agent Identification (TAASG 2006/01) and Pre-return processes (TAASG 2006/02) – see below.
  • Tony Kelly and Graeme Ross to work together to produce a shared vision for the next meeting. First draft of a vision paper circulated.
  • Members to provide comments to Philippa Staples by end of August on draft Terms of Reference, so that an updated draft is available for the next meeting. Nothing received prior to meeting, aim to finalise these at the next meeting.

    Action: Views from agent reps to Chris Buckels by the end of October, for update, circulation and sign off at next meeting.

Update on HMRC Tax Agents & Advisers Unit

  1. Roger Halson explained that the agents and advisers work had moved to the new Business Customer Unit (BCU) as part of the restructuring of the Customer Units. The Large Business Customer Unit and SME&EU had been merged under its new director Stephen Banyard. This recognises that the agent population is a customer unit in its own right. The Agent Team now sits in the Customer Experience Team of Roger Halson, which includes Working Together (WT) under Theresa Middleton.
  2. There was concern at the overlap between the work of the Agent Strategy Steering Group and Working Together. This concern was recognised and Roger Halson will look at how we can take forward the agent work across all areas.

    Action: Roger Halson to contact representatives to discuss structure and ideas on how the HMRC and agents effectively work together across all existing forums. Update for the next meeting.

Shared Vision (TAASG 2006/04)

  1. First draft of a high level joint HMRC/Agent vision (worked up after discussion between Graeme Ross, Theresa Middleton and Tony Kelly). Aim is to announce this more publicly at PBR, which would allow the views of agents who were not members of representative bodies to be taken on board. Within the vision it is recognised that HMRC would want to look differently at the different services provided by and required by different sorts of agents, and this need not depend on qualification.
  2. While the vision is high level and aspirational, there are concerns that, in the here and now, local Working Together is falling apart across the country. HMRC proposals to make sure local working together was on track would be out by end October.

Contact Centres Pilot for Agents

  1. Jane Gilchrist outlined proposals for running a Contact Centre pilot to improve the service to agents building on the experience of the Sunderland pilot that was run last year. HMRC has already engaged with Working Together representative bodies through Derek Allen and John Kimmer. The pilot will run at one Contact Centre probably from December 2006 to February 2007, as this will include a peak period to provide a proper test (January and February). Resources should be able to cope even during the peak periods, but as a contingency, overflow arrangements will be agreed with another Contact Centre. The agent population will be divided into 3 groups:
  • Group 1: Status Quo (Control Group). Urgent calls via Agent Priority Line; all calls routed via adviser; calls escalated as appropriate using current guidelines.
  • Group 2: All agent calls direct to technician using new telephone number for duration of pilot.
  • Group 3: Use 2 new numbers for duration of pilot; one for routine enquiries, one for complex; ask agents to decide which one to call;
  1. Working Together have offered help (through the local group) with identifying members for the pilot groups to create 3 evenly balanced groups in terms of business type, number of clients and volume of calls they normally make to the CC. Working Together have already offered help facilitate the conduct of the pilot, evaluation, and to encourage agents to ‘stick to the rules’.
  2. A key problem for HMRC was that although agents frequently complain that their queries are not satisfactorily answered by the Contact Centres, it has been difficult to establish exactly what those queries are. There needs to be an understanding about what sort of queries can be answered at Contact Centres, and how we deal with more complex technical advice. HMRC needs a better feel for the breadth and depth of the issues raised. Agents were frustrated by callbacks, (on issues that could not immediately be resolved), happening 2 or 3 days later.

    Action: Steering Group members to monitor and report on the range and volume of issues that they address to Contact Centres, and to send examples of the sorts of issues that they feel should be answered by the Contact Centre advisers (and have not been) to Suzanne West by end October.

Workstream Papers

  1. Steering Group was asked to consider each paper to:
  • endorse the initial approach set out in the papers;
  • decide what they can offer in way of resource from within the professional bodies that could work with HMRC in taking them forward; and
  • to consider the timescales for this work.
  1. Initial written comments were requested from representative members to take forward these papers.

    Action: Steering group members to provide initial comments in writing on the workstream papers. Also for them to consider how they can support the work outlined in the papers, providing where appropriate contact names to work with HMRC colleagues.

Agent Identification (TAASG 2006/01)

  1. The paper recognised that HMRC need better identification and understanding of the agent population to:
  • help HMRC to work more effectively with agents;
  • deliver services that meet agent needs;
  • enable HMRC to work with agents in ensuring accuracy and completeness of their clients’ tax returns; and
  • help HMRC to more effectively target risk based upon a complete understanding of the customer and their affairs.
  1. Initial concern that the paper was written just from the HMRC viewpoint. However, a better identification database would enable HMRC to better target its risk work and deal with the small number of disreputable agents involved in MTIC and repayment fraud. HMRC should recognise that the representative bodies had their own means of policing their membership. ICAS had already conducted a full round of practice assurance visits to members.

    Action: Derek Allen would set up meeting for Tony Kelly with the ICAS head of Quality Assurance and Litigation. Paul Aplin would do the same for ICAEW.

Pre-Return processes (TAASG 2006/02)

  1. The paper begins the debate on how HMRC might improve its understanding of pre return processes adopted by agents and sets out how we could build on that understanding to develop and trial new approaches to compliance that seek to gain and place an extent of reliance on agents pre return activity.

Agent Services (TAASG 2006/03)

  1. The paper suggests how we might approach that work, initially by:
  • researching what the current agent experience is
  • identifying which services require changes and
  • establishing what new services may be needed.

AOB

  1. HMRC are very keen to recruit an external secondee from the agent community to join the Tax Agents and Advisers Team to help with the work and give the daily perspective of an agent. Funding was available for a 12 month secondment.

    Action: Job description to be sent to Steering Group members for them to consider and put forward potential candidates.
  2. The next meeting of the Group would take place late November/early December