Tribunals Reform Stakeholder Group Meeting

Date: 6 January 2009

Time: 2.00 to 4.00pm

HMRC

David Hinstridge
Helen Latham
Jennie Vaughan
Jackie Rimmer
Rose Egan
David Croad
Mumtaz Patel

Tribunals Service (TS)

Bryan Pay
Mary Dallas

Agent Representatives

Robert Maas - IIT/ICAEW
Ron Downhill - Law Society
Robin Williamson - LITRG
Penny Hamilton - CIOT
Derek Allen - ICAS

Apologies

Jane Moore - ICAEW
Peter Jennings - ACCA
Jeremy Woolf - CIOT
Marcia Martin - HMRC
John Hughes - HMRC
Stewart Sykes - HMRC
Tony Verran - HMRC

1.Welcome and introductions

1.1 HMRC welcomed everyone to the meeting and introductions were made.

1.2 HMRC explained the format of this meeting was different to previous meetings as they would be showing products, created for Tribunals reform and internal review and requesting comments from agent reps.

2. Minutes and action points from previous meeting

2.1. The minutes from the meeting held on 12 November 2008 were agreed.

2.2. The outstanding action points from the meeting were covered.

2.2.1. AP1 had not been completed as the information is not yet available from the Manchester Review Team. The information should be available in the next ten days.
2.2.2. It was agreed AP2 and 3 had been completed.

3. Learning

3.1. HMRC explained they were planning to release an e-learning awareness package. The package will be launched to staff in mid January and to customers/agents from mid February via the Internet.

3.2. HMRC mentioned they were planning to also release a guided learning package for reviewers. This will be available to staff in February and to agents in April. The package will consist of two parts. The first part includes chapters on the 'transition', 'decision maker' and the 'review officer's role'. The second part includes 'the new tribunal system', 'costs' and the 'Clearing House'.

AP1: HMRC to circulate the headings in the reviewer's package to agent reps.

3.3. Agent reps expressed concerns that there may be less take up of reviews, if the reviewer's package was not available before April.

3.4. HMRC displayed the latest version of the e-learning awareness package via PowerPoint and asked agent reps for their comments.

3.4.1. Agent reps suggested emphasising that the reviewers would be independent from the inspector/officer.
3.4.2. Agent reps mentioned they were receiving queries from their Scottish members regarding the interaction between the first and upper tier. HMRC explained there was general information about the tiers in the awareness package and more detailed information would be provided in the reviewer's package.
3.4.3. Agent reps asked if the training was mandatory. HMRC explained the Directors of all impacted business units have been asked to complete a readiness certificate, to confirm staff are aware of the changes and have completed the learning packages.
3.4.4. Agent reps suggested clarifying the dual meaning of the word 'appeal' ie for tax credit cases.

3.5. HMRC mentioned they were planning to have a conference for reviewers on the 23 and 24 March. The agenda will include a session from an agent's perspective.

4.Paper Hearing Products

4.1. HMRC provided handouts of the draft Paper hearing products and asked agent reps for their comments.

4.1.1. Agent reps suggested amending the text 'this form must be sent to' to 'please send this form to'.
4.1.2. Agent reps recommended moving the time limit from the end of the letter to the top.
4.1.3. Agent reps expressed concerns for customers without Internet access to view the further information on the TS, mentioned in the letter. TS confirmed the information could be requested via a telephone number.

4.2. It was agreed that HMRC would amend the products taking on board the comments of the agent reps.

AP2: HMRC to amend draft Paper hearing products.

4.3. HMRC asked for any comments to be emailed to Jennie Vaughan by COP 13 January.

5. Guidance

5.1. HMRC explained they were planning to publish two guidance products for staff. This includes transitional guidance and business as usual called 'Appeals, Reviews, Tribunals Guidance' (ARTG).

5.2. The external guidance products include a 'factsheet' and the detailed guidance 'ARTG'.

5.3. The ARTG will be published in two stages. The first stage will be published in March and will include detailed guidance on 'reviews'. The second stage will be published in April and will include guidance on 'Tribunals'.

5.4. Agent reps suggested keeping both stages separate on the Internet.

5.5. HMRC indicated that the first draft will be circulated to stakeholders at the end of January. The second stage will be circulated at a later date.

5.6. HMRC provided handouts of the draft factsheet and asked agent reps for their comments.

5.6.1. Agent reps suggested amending the factsheet to show that the review and appeal are parallel processes.
5.6.2. Agent reps expressed concerns, that the average customer may not know how to present a case for appeal, and suggested adding a link to the guidance from the factsheet.

5.7. A discussion took place regarding 'hardship'. It was agreed HMRC would review the consultation document.

AP3: HMRC to review 'hardship' consultation document and provide clarification to agent reps.

6. Plenary

6.1. Agent reps asked about the progress of the Tribunal rules. TS explained that the draft rules will be available from the end of January.

7. Summary

7.1. HMRC said they were working to tight deadlines for producing the products.

7.2. HMRC asked if any agent reps were interested in providing an agents perspective, at the reviewers conference, to let David Croad know by COP 13 January.

7.3. HMRC thanked everyone for attending the meeting and their comments.

7.4. It was agreed the final TRSG meeting should be arranged for mid March.

The meeting ended at 4.00pm.

Summary of Action Points

AP1: HMRC to circulate the headings in the reviewer's package to agent reps.